Former Victoria Police detective Paul Dale. Source: Herald Sun
A SECRET gangland witness says a former detective tipped off gangland killer Carl Williams that a drugs lab he was linked to was being watched by police.
But the prosecution witness in the trial of former detective Paul Dale today denied a suggestion he was a “thoroughly untrustworthy human being”, despite having admitted to the jury he was a gun supplier and drug dealer who was a one-time criminal associate of Williams.
The witness, who can only be referred to as Witness B, told the trial via video link from prison that the underworld was not “Mary Poppins school” and that “people who lived by the sword died by the sword”.
Under examination by Crown prosecutor Christopher Beale, SC, Witness B said Williams had told him a policeman named Paul was providing him with information about surveillance.
Witness B said the alleged information seemed “pretty good”.
It was alleged that Mr Dale was the officer being referred to, and that he warned Williams that police were carrying out surveillance on a particular drug lab that Williams was connected with.
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Witness B told the court that Williams was told to distance himself, and if he did he would not be arrested.
During cross-examination, defence counsel Geoffrey Steward established that Witness B had never met or spoken with Mr Dale and had never heard Mr Dale speak a word to Williams.
Witness B admitted to having supplied guns that were used to kill people and to “prodigious” drug trafficking.
When asked if he knew how many murders Carl Williams was responsible for, Witness B replied: “A fair few.”
He said he believed his former associate was linked to the murders of Jason Moran, Mark Moran, Mark Mallia, Nik Radev, Lewis Moran and an attempted murder and a conspiracy to murder, and that Williams had admitted to having had Graham “The Munster” Kinniburgh killed because he believed Kinniburgh had the means to have him murdered.
Mr Dale is accused of lying to the Australian Crime Commission about his relationship with Carl Williams.
He has pleaded not guilty to 12 charges relating to answers he gave while being questioned in March 2007 and November 2008.
In his opening address, Mr Beale said Mr Dale had told ACC examiners his relationship with Williams had consisted of two planned meetings and an accidental encounter, each of which had been documented.
But Mr Beale alleged Mr Dale had an "ongoing, secret relationship'' with Williams, and had lied to the ACC because he believed he was suspected of involvement in the murder of police informer Terry Hodson and his wife, Christine.
Carl’s father, George Williams, last week told the court that he had driven his son to two secret meetings with a man he believed was Mr Dale.
He said one rendezvous was in the suburb of Hillside; the other was a 10-minute meeting at a suburban leisure centre, to which Carl took $6000.
Mr Williams said Carl later told him he'd been provided with ``swimming trunks'' and that he and Mr Dale walked in the pool -- an act Carl found amusing.
Today, Witness B agreed that Carl Williams had been a liar to certain people, a cheat, a man interested almost exclusively in himself and a big-noting multiple killer.
The witness denied suggestions that he himself was a dishonourable man.
The trial, before Justice Elizabeth Curtain, continues.
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